[Read me] .pngs (RANT!!!)

[catfish08]

Ever since I found FoF and have been looking at themes, I have always wondered why people use .pngs and .tiffs as screenshots? It's ridiculous when they have several image all at LEAST 1mb each. I got a fairly good connection, and It still takes too long to view one page of a forum. I can imagine the pain for people with dial-up, and slower broadband speeds.
Reason for .pngs being so big? Unlike jpegs, .pngs CANNOT be compressed and are known as a 'lossless' format. (There is much more detail to this)
Jpegs however can be compressed by a huge amount without too much quality loss.

***
Here's an example

The below image is .png format (A whopping 587kb!)


THIS image however is the friendly .jpg (A nice 67kb...that's right 67kb. That's 8.761194 x Smaller!)


Can you tell the difference? If I had to choose which one was which I honestly couldn't tell.

***
So why use .png? Well they support transparency.
..... and that's it.
Instead, why not colour pick the background red off FoF, then put that as the background of your image. Then BAM! you can save it as a .jpg and still have that transparent look.

So please, don't use .pngs. It's a waste of our bandwidth and time, as well as yours. (You have to upload them remember ) A simple conversion goes a long way.

Finally if you are smart and join the revolution, just don't save your jpegs in the highest quality setting. You'll obviously end up with a huge size once again. In photoshop, go to file -> save for web and devices. From there you can save your image with the lowest possible jpg size, without screwing up quality.

Have a nice day.

[Co2Noss]

Oh my God FINALLY! I hate when you go to view a theme and it takes 3 minutes to load all the pictures such as the GH3 one! Thank you for ranting!!

[jstump91]

This really is something I believe people should get in the habit of doing when posting screenshots.

PNGs *are* compressed, though the compression retains all of the data. The losslessness greatly limits what the compression can do. For screenshot-heavy threads, so what if the image compression throws out some of the data? (JPEG, with quality somewhere near 85%, is a quite reasonable tradeoff between quality and file size.) I'd rather be able to actually see the stuff in a reasonable amount of time than have it pixel-perfect.

[catfish08]

Bumping this so people can absorb.

[R4L]

OK, how about this:

Would you rather have me upload BMP files?

[Co2Noss]

OK, how about this:

Would you rather have me upload BMP files?

I actually use BMP's sometimes because they load much faster and I'm not really using them for anything other than error/bug reporting for fofix. JPG or JPEG is fine thanks.

[catfish08]

OK, how about this:

Would you rather have me upload BMP files?

I actually use BMP's sometimes because they load much faster and I'm not really using them for anything other than error/bug reporting for fofix. JPG or JPEG is fine thanks.

Anything that's a decent size.
It just frustrates me when I have to wait SO friggin' long to load one page. I know many other sites have limitations on the size in forums. I wish that came into practice here too. Especially when people post 'backgrounds' for themes in the forum. Look at how much stuff is in the GH Metallica thread! I can swear the current page with all the .pngs is around 5-8mb in size. IF they are going to post images, I honestly can't see why they can't put the direct link in. It allows people to choose if they want to see the pics or not. Most of us wouldn't really care. Another example is the GH3 theme thread, it's an awesome theme, but It takes just TOO long to load. Most have even past the photobucket bandwidth limit so half the images don't even appear. I can load a youtube movie in the time it takes to load that page...
I'm not trying to rant for the sake of it, I'm just trying to get people to use common sense! It's easier for everyone in the end, yet people still post 1mb files simply to show a picture.

[KTownEgghead]

I love .pngs more than cake.

I'm one of those people who can tell a .jpeg when I see it compared to a .png and it bugs me that it isn't perfect. lol That, and what were you saying about transparency for .jpegs in FoF? I didn't understand it.

EDIT::: I refreshed the page and the .png loads faster for me. Hmm.

[catfish08]

I love .pngs more than cake.

For you loving .pngs, yes they are clearer, but seriously 1mb just for someone to look at a picture? Lossless image formats are fine for looking at on your computer, but when it comes to people viewing it online, bandwidth wise they are not considered convenient at all.

That, and what were you saying about transparency for .jpegs in FoF? I didn't understand it.

Nah, not in the actual game, but just the forums lol. Because many people use .pngs to make their theme pages look good (Eg for headings -Download icons and stuff), they sometimes take up a lot of room. You can get the same look in a jpg just by setting the background to the red of the forum. (This is a minor thing haha)

I refreshed the page and the .png loads faster for me. Hmm.

As for the .png loading faster, it is because your browser is simply loading it first. Things on webpages sometimes load in different orders, that's all. The .png cannot 'load faster' than the jpg, because it is a much bigger filesize, logically making it slower.

[aduro]

The reason the PNG is a million times bigger is because you took a JPG and converted it into a PNG. That's like reencoding a video at high quality and complaining because it's larger than the video you started with

JPGs have their uses but overall PNGs are so much better for anything graphic related. JPG artifacting is an unbelievable pain in the ass and it sticks out no matter what

Finally if you are smart and join the revolution, just don't save your jpegs in the highest quality setting. You'll obviously end up with a huge size once again. In photoshop, go to file -> save for web and devices. From there you can save your image with the lowest possible jpg size, without screwing up quality.

The revolution to bring the internet back to 1997

[Lysdestic]

Well, as far as screen shots go, I fully support our 1997 overlords, thank you very much.

The OP isn't saying all PNG's should be replaced with Jpegs, he is arguing that for the sake of bandwidth, screen shots be Jpegs.

[Deseo Sangre]

PNG = PwNaGe

[blazingamer]

Let's get this settled,

BMP = 16bit
JPG = 24bit
PNG = 24-48bit

The more bits there are to the quality of the image, the less artifacting you'll get and the higher quality you'll get. When you take a screen shot, all the images are already flattened on top of each other so transparency, something special to 32bit, is not necessary, which means you should just have to settle for 24 bit. This should only really apply to screen shots. I've had cases where a PNG would have been better for a piece of art but to save load and upload time I compressed it to JPG, bad decision but it saved on 2.7mb of space, I'm not so sure on whether or not it was worth it so I might change it.

All in all I'm just trying to say, screenshots, JPG is good enough, you shouldn't have to go higher than that. For other things, yeah sure, use PNG.

[Nickman]

When i first read this i though why bother but then i remembered that not every one has free internet bandwidth.
So for the sake of those less fortunate i'll for one will use jpg from now on. On screenshots that is. Not on anything that is important

[R4L]

Let's get this settled,

BMP = 16bit
JPG = 24bit
PNG = 24-48bit

That's not always the case though. It depends on the colors. BMPs can be monochrome and 8 bit and what not, and a high res 24 bit (high color) BMP screenshot is definitely bigger than a PNG. BMP's are clearer than PNGs if you really compare the colors. You lose some saturation in PNGs.

I learned this the hard way making sprites lol. Having an engine display over 50 BMP images wasn't fun.

The reason the PNG is a million times bigger is because you took a JPG and converted it into a PNG. That's like reencoding a video at high quality and complaining because it's larger than the video you started with

JPGs have their uses but overall PNGs are so much better for anything graphic related. JPG artifacting is an unbelievable pain in the ass and it sticks out no matter what

I actually agree with you. FINALLY! JPGs aren't good for anything except screenshots.

For the sake of you though, I'll use jpegs whenever too. I got PS so it's no biggie for me. :)