Tech Support and 'Other Games'

[amak11]

First off, wolferacing made an interesting post in the tech support section, in short, explaining that you DO NOT say "play this game cause its better and works". The Tech Support section is only meant for the tech support of Frets on Fire and Frets on Fire related games. Nowhere in that section should it say play Phase Shift (yes another rant about PS).

I understand Phase Shift has it's own forum and whatever Kiwi and Fatdog do there is their business. Phase Shift has it's own thread in the Other Music Games, that is where it stays. What i propose is that no one suggest PS as an alternative to fixing their FoFiX related problems in tech support. Basically, if the topic says FoF or FoFiX, DONT SUGGEST PHASE SHIFT. This isn't an attempt to get a rise out of people. I'm tired of going into tech support and seeing the same 4 people suggesting Phase Shift will fix their problems. /End-of-Rant


Here is a few examples of topics in tech support suggest Phase Shift as an option:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51871
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51909
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51509
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51467 (This one was regarding a pro instrument, sorta a no brainier)


Anyways, dont get mad at me. I'm speaking the truth on this issue.

[nwru]

I can see the point you're trying to make, but I don't see the suggestions in those examples to be as obnoxious as you see them. It's not like they're going, "haha, FoF sucks! go play this other game!" Asskickulater's post is pretty close though and was uncalled for.

Otherwise, Which would be more useful to say back to the OP? "FoF can't do that, sorry" or "FoF can't do that, but this other game can do what you want"

Of course it's a grey area. The important thing is to observe the intent of the poster. Feel free to report posters that deserve a closer look.

[raynebc]

Two of those threads were requesting features that FoFiX doesn't support, one was a pointless rant by a troll and the last one was a valid request for support for something that should work. If somebody asks for something that FoFiX can't provide, I don't see it as wrong to suggest a suitable alternative. If it was the old days where development of Frets on Fire was consistent, people wouldn't be so quick to look elsewhere. But sometimes there are weeks in between code commits, and defects remain unresolved years after they were reported. I can understand that this is still meant to be primarily a FoF forum, but other related projects have sprouted and established user bases here in the last few years.

[Metallicaholic666]

I saw that one of my posts was used as an example for this. I just want to say that I'm not even a Phase Shift user, I may download the latest one to play with the new features but that's about it. I use FoFiX to its full capacity and if I need a feature that it doesn't have, ill use something else to suit my need, which is what every fofix user should do. You shouldn't completely ditch a great game that's come so far such as Frets On Fire/FoFiX over a game that's all shiny and new such as Phase Shift. Over time they're gonna stop coding the game and people are just going to want more and more and when that time comes, a new game will come out and we will be right back here again, someone like amak bawwwwing that people are slowly not liking a game due to a lack of a trivial feature.

[aander91]

Amak has been complaining about Phase Shift since it's inception. I guess he feels threatened or something which confuses me because he has no connection to the programs development. This thread is seriously just ignorant. Phase Shift is better than FoFix and is being developed much faster so for you to tell people off for suggesting Phase Shift is absolutely asinine.

Continue being arrogant if you wish, just don't pull other people into your hilarious little tirades, I get the vibe that you want this stickied and I apologize if I'm assuming incorrectly, but I'm seriously against the idea of not suggesting an alternative that is clearly better when suggestions are requested.

Edit: It's also somewhat disturbing to see that AK was scolded for his post when I agree with it fully and think that it was a very helpful response from yet another frustrated FoFix user. Phase Shift has been proven to be faster on an average computer and at the moment supports far more modes of play. Also FoFix's development seems to be at a standstill so I really don't see how anything in that post could be taken as "opinion" or "biased".

[amak11]

Annder you, nor Kiwi and fatdog...actually no one would have liked the first revision of my post. This isnt an attack on Phase Shift at all. It clearly explains a problem that is in this Frets on Fire forum. My thing is no one helps said people with their problem, and most of the post i have seen are related to the speed of fofix.

[aander91]

Which can't really be fixed. So the only viable solution would be to switch to a less bugged alternative.

[wolferacing]

Edit: It's also somewhat disturbing to see that AK was scolded for his post when I agree with it fully and think that it was a very helpful response from yet another frustrated FoFix user. Phase Shift has been proven to be faster on an average computer and at the moment supports far more modes of play. Also FoFix's development seems to be at a standstill so I really don't see how anything in that post could be taken as "opinion" or "biased".

I didn't see it as helpful at all. Also, how can "Phase Shift is a very good replacement for fofix" not be an opinion or biased? From a neutral standpoint, one would notice phase shift isn't open source but FofiX is. Then one would notice modes that phase shift has vs FoFiX. Someone might be after finding an open source game while someone else is looking for a new mode. Therefore, it's an opinion if you state phase shift is the better product.

[raynebc]

Performance-wise, it runs better for the Windows platform than FoF/FoFiX. That's an opinion, but it would probably be shared by many/most/all people that have compared both. So at some point, there are facts to some of these types of claims.

[aander91]

Edit: It's also somewhat disturbing to see that AK was scolded for his post when I agree with it fully and think that it was a very helpful response from yet another frustrated FoFix user. Phase Shift has been proven to be faster on an average computer and at the moment supports far more modes of play. Also FoFix's development seems to be at a standstill so I really don't see how anything in that post could be taken as "opinion" or "biased".

I didn't see it as helpful at all. Also, how can "Phase Shift is a very good replacement for fofix" not be an opinion or biased? From a neutral standpoint, one would notice phase shift isn't open source but FofiX is. Then one would notice modes that phase shift has vs FoFiX. Someone might be after finding an open source game while someone else is looking for a new mode. Therefore, it's an opinion if you state phase shift is the better product.

Sorry but how does FoFix being open source solve his problem? I'm pretty sure he's not looking to fix all of the bugs in FoFix or his thread would've been quite different.

Here's some fun facts for you to think over:
-FoFix has had a history of not working well with certain hardware
-FoFix has not been updated in some time
-It's unlikely that FoFix will be updated in the near future
-Phase Shift runs incredibly well on almost every computer that comes close to hitting its already modest system requirements
-Phase Shift is far more user friendly
-Phase Shift supports far more modes of play
-Phase Shift gets an almost weekly update with some longer waits here and there for major reworkings

I get that this is a FoF forum and all, but I think you all need to get over the fact that FoFix in it's current state is simply unusable in some instances where Phase Shift would be a wonderful alternative.

Edit(nwru): This comment was uncalled for and deleted. Keep the discussion about the topic and not insults.

[amak11]

I kinda like how you argue performance. You have no idea. Phase Shift on the same settings gets the same FPS as FoFix. The main problem is lack of upkeep on peoples personal computers when it comes to performance. Bare in mind i dont run these types of test on my laptop, they go straight to my desktop as it has the most horsepower.

A couple fun facts regarding the true speeds:
- FoFiX runs around 300 fps on good machine in menus. In game, it drops to about 60 - 80 fps. The funny part, these are the same frame rate on all resolutions up to 720p. Higher then that speeds drop.
- Phase Shift gets around 220 FPS if not a little more in menus (mainly due to the moving menus). In game it varies largely on resolution and what background you have. But im assuming Phase Shift uses a locked frame rate in game to reduce lag.
- Both games have major performance robbing issues, Phase Shift may have less, but it's still there.

You guys need to start watching the facebook page and maybe you'll see that here has been many commitments to the sources over the past couple months.

Personally, i'd rather see Phase Shift as a last resort to any problem. People like to be lazy, cant say install updated video card drivers, or turn off shaders, or use theme x cause it has the best performance. Hell, what happens if the people are on Linux or mac. You clearly dont suggest Phase Shift then.

[aander91]

I'd like to see some proof of your "facts".

[amak11]

Give me time to re-download phase shift and i can more then prove my point

[Asskickulater]

I kinda like how you argue performance. You have no idea. Phase Shift on the same settings gets the same FPS as FoFix. The main problem is lack of upkeep on peoples personal computers when it comes to performance. Bare in mind i dont run these types of test on my laptop, they go straight to my desktop as it has the most horsepower.

A couple fun facts regarding the true speeds:
- FoFiX runs around 300 fps on good machine in menus. In game, it drops to about 60 - 80 fps. The funny part, these are the same frame rate on all resolutions up to 720p. Higher then that speeds drop.
- Phase Shift gets around 220 FPS if not a little more in menus (mainly due to the moving menus). In game it varies largely on resolution and what background you have. But im assuming Phase Shift uses a locked frame rate in game to reduce lag.
- Both games have major performance robbing issues, Phase Shift may have less, but it's still there.

You guys need to start watching the facebook page and maybe you'll see that here has been many commitments to the sources over the past couple months.

Personally, i'd rather see Phase Shift as a last resort to any problem. People like to be lazy, cant say install updated video card drivers, or turn off shaders, or use theme x cause it has the best performance. Hell, what happens if the people are on Linux or mac. You clearly dont suggest Phase Shift then.

I call bullsh*t.

1)

I kinda like how you argue performance. You have no idea. Phase Shift on the same settings gets the same FPS as FoFix.

I can gurantee you this is wrong. here are some reasons:
A) fofix dosent even HAVE as many settings as PS
B) try and run fofix is with 2 player, tell me your fps, then try PS.. or try 3 player, even 4 player! if you dont drop at all in fofix then i know your BSing

2)

FoFiX runs around 300 fps on good machine in menus. In game, it drops to about 60 - 80 fps. The funny part, these are the same frame rate on all resolutions up to 720p. Higher then that speeds drop.

A)FOFIX IS DISPLAYING STILL IMAGES!! your really comparing a video/animated background with a PICTURE? im not even going anymore on this one...

3)

Code: Select all

In game it varies largely on resolution and what background you have. But im assuming Phase Shift uses a locked frame rate in game to reduce lag.

no sh*t, did you figure that out all by yourself? of course the background effects your fps, fofix would too! and whats more, PS has a dynamic background set up, fofix dosent even support that at all, so you haver no right to compare that!!

[aander91]

fofix dosent even HAVE as many settings as PS

This is incorrect but dead on with your other points.


Also I'm quite irritated with that edit. If you really don't think people (read: Amak) are mad because Phase Shift has overcome FoFix in terms of features and reliability then you are delusional.