vedicardi wrote:How about let's all stop posting and defeat the purpose of having a forum in the first place: discussion! Brilliant!
How about lets learn the difference between argument and debate. Seriously guys. Amak, people are allowed to disagree with you, and people are allowed to misunderstand your points. Raptor: people are allowed to be WRONG.
Debate is when you present a viewpoint (or an alternative viewpoint) based on evidence. And then you and the other person present counter-evidence, and at some point decide to stop the debate because A) you have no more evidence; B) you concede the point; C) they concede the point; or D) you both realize your evidence is not convincing the other and therefore agree to disagree.
Argument is when you let emotions enter a debate and you start thinking (or typing) "you idiot" or variations on the same theme. The first thing to realize is that arguments string from debates where you
aren't willing to accept that people can be WRONG. When you aren't willing to say "well, I'm not changing your mind." and then drop the subject, emotions take over. (Note, I'm not saying you should turn off your emotions when you're debating, I'm saying you shouldn't let them take over the evidence. You can present evidence and point out where someone is verifiably wrong without getting emotional.)
As soon as you guys (yes, I'm speaking personally here) enter argument mode, PAGES of the thread became devoted to your argument. Usually, you guys start throwing insults (either overt or implied) at each other as soon as it starts because there are so many amak vs raptor/aander/tally/whoever arguments. Really guys, the instant you find yourself typing any kind of judgement against the PERSON and not the EVIDENCE (note: this includes "YOUR ARGUMENT SUCKS" type things when you don't have evidence), or typing some kind of statement that has no evidence (that is not clearly a personal opinion) STOP TYPING. "I think Sony is on track to win back fans with this" is a good opinion. "YOU ARE SUCH A CONSOLE FANBOY THIS IS CLEARLY MEANINGLESS" is a bad one. It's an equally valid opinion, but it shouldn't be expressed in that manner. You guys have almost all done this, I'm not leveling this at any one of you specifically. If I see more, I'm going to start liberally dispensing warnings and/or temp bans (possibly with a long explanation of what is good and what isn't).
Discussion and debate are good things, but not when they completely monopolize a thread (usually) or when they turn into a personal argument. I'm making no comments on the arguments themselves here, and I don't intend to make my opinions known because they are irrelevant to this; but it does look like you guys almost gang up on amak when he expresses a pro-sony opinion. Just because his opinion may be wrong or he may not have the best evidence is no reason to spend the next page and half trying to explain to him why he's wrong and getting mad when he doesn't accept your points. And that applies to everyone here, not just amak.
Now, stop arguing. Debate is fine. Pro and con discussions are fine. If you want to discuss this post further, you all have my IMs or can send me a PM (which includes me pointing out the problems in your posts. If you want to know exactly why I called you guys out, tell me and I'll go through and point out the specific problems in PM or IM or whatever). If you want to argue among yourselves privately, that's fine. Raptor, at one point you said you don't have anything to say to amak you won't say publicly: that may be true, and that's probably a good thing, but that doesn't mean you SHOULD say it publicly. Just 'cause you are willing to say it, doesn't make it appropriate.
Back to sony discussion!
Welcome to an internet message board, where every answer comes with a free side of sarcasm or criticism. Enjoy your stay.