Purchasing Song Charts?

[amak11]

I know it's been a long time since i made any new topic and it has been a long time since i posted anything that we can actually discuss as a community.

As you seen the topic is "purchasing song charts". So the biggest question i have to ask is why?
(I fully understand why, but for those who don't it's a great refresher)

Is this a trend that you would see in the future with new and older charters? why/why not?

Do you think is tramples all over the original conceptions for this community? why/why not?

Do you think it will ruin an already great community? why/why not?

What is your personal opinion as a fretter/ leecher?


I'll post my opinion later, i just want to see peoples thoughts on it.

[leflue]

Puppetz will probably be the only person who'll successfully get any money for his work charting and I think it's fair as well. After charting 700+ songs for free there shouldn't be any problems paying to have your song request fulfilled quickly and well. Check the request thread and notice the majority of them are unanswered.

[amak11]

... Not what i mean my kind young sir. I don't not want a song, this is a topic that should be discussing the practice of charging for songs. Also if i wanted a song, all i have to do is chart it myself.

[superfly360]

Ehh I definitely wouldn't get involved with it myself, but I don't really see much of a problem if others do it. I'm not really expecting the community to become some pay-for-requests business. I chart for my own enjoyment, and others getting happy as a result is just a great side-effect. I would never charge for my charts, even if they are direct requests.

Personally, I don't really like the idea of charging for charts, but any way to generate activity in this community would be nice. Although I'm not sure if this will simply drive away new members if the idea picks up, as it may give the impression that you have to pay to get a request done in a reasonable amount of time, and not everyone is willing to pay for charts.

And I don't really agree with the argument that after doing a crap-ton of charts for free, that it's fair to suddenly start charging. I understand that this is not Puppetz rationale for doing this, but if one is so uninterested in charting that money becomes the primary motive, he/she should stop charting. Charting should be fun, and if you make a little money at the same time, I guess that's okay, though I won't be getting involved in that aspect.

I think the safest way to make money charting is to get involved with RBN, though that isn't the most practical option for some of us.

Just my personal opinion, and anyone can feel free to disagree. I have nothing against those who participate in this activity, even if I don't exactly support it.

[leflue]

... Not what i mean my kind young sir. I don't not want a song, this is a topic that should be discussing the practice of charging for songs. Also if i wanted a song, all i have to do is chart it myself.

... That's not what I meant either. I was addressing the person who is doing this instead of being vague. It's kind of messed up that after 4 or so years of charting more songs (good quality) than anyone else that people want to get on a high horse and go on a witch hunt over this. If someone wants to make some money to fund getting themselves a new computer (as far as I know) let them be. This isn't the first time someone has tried to make money off charting, just the first successful time.

[amak11]

... That's not what I meant either. I was addressing the person who is doing this instead of being vague. It's kind of messed up that after 4 or so years of charting more songs (good quality) than anyone else that people want to get on a high horse and go on a witch hunt over this. If someone wants to make some money to fund getting themselves a new computer (as far as I know) let them be. This isn't the first time someone has tried to make money off charting, just the first successful time.

I'm not targeting anyone specifically (just saying). I dont care how anyone conducts their chart making process. I think that it offends on the principles of customs. That it should be for free, and for the masses and not be charged for in any manner.

[leflue]

... That's not what I meant either. I was addressing the person who is doing this instead of being vague. It's kind of messed up that after 4 or so years of charting more songs (good quality) than anyone else that people want to get on a high horse and go on a witch hunt over this. If someone wants to make some money to fund getting themselves a new computer (as far as I know) let them be. This isn't the first time someone has tried to make money off charting, just the first successful time.

I'm not targeting anyone specifically (just saying).

There's only one person doing it. I think if anyone else tries this (except for maybe Angevil) they will most likely get little to no attention.

[Oddbrother]

I guess the word "successful" defines how big those shoes would be to fill before starting to sell charts, huh?

I see it in the same way as I do with art commissions. People paint a picture for a fan, people chart songs for a fan... Unless you justify the "fine line" between the two.

[jonathonrt]

I think it's good, Simply because, Before, if you wanted a specific song charted you either have to learn charting yourself, which is difficult, Or make a request, which has like a 1/1000 chance of working(?), Obviously you have a better chance if it's a very popular song that is likely to be fretted regardless, But for songs that are very obscure, Getting someone to fret them for you is difficult at best. I've already purchased one chart from Puppetz, and am getting a second one within a couple days. Sure the first chart was 13 dollars, But I got a song I really wanted, And got it in like 3 days. I don't really see this idea picking up anywhere else anyways, As Puppetz is one of the very few I would actually pay for a chart, Or someone like Angevil, as someone else mentioned.

Is this a trend that you would see in the future with new and older charters? why/why not?
It's highly unlikely, New fretters wouldn't have enough work shown to know that you would get a decent chart for the buck, And for older charters, it depends. Are they very good charters? If so, Then fine, If they wanna try charging for requests, Let em. Again, It's a good way to get the more obscure charted.

Do you think is tramples all over the original conceptions for this community? why/why not?
Can't really chime in here, As a more recent member, I'm not 100% clear on what the Original Conceptions are.

Do you think it will ruin an already great community? why/why not?
Incredibly unlikely. Unless everyone charter ever suddenly thinks they should charge for charts, This community will be fine. There'll still be plenty of people making lots of charts for free.

What is your personal opinion as a fretter/ leecher?
As a leecher, (Tried fretting once, Didn't go too well) I'm fine with the idea.

[Puppetz]

I will not participate in this debate (as I'm one of the subjects here). I'm still charting stuff for free for this community (Drum Project 4), and other songs will be released in my regular song thread also. Songs I've received cash from will be released in a new thread later, which means even more free songs for this community.

[Asskickulater]

as long as the songs get released to the forum for free, I dont see many issues, not sure if I agree with it or not, but the people practically begged for this so obviously they wanted it lol

[amak11]

I dont mind either as long as things do get released for free. I have my opinions, and what not.

However i should answer my own questions now:

Is this a trend that you would see in the future with new and older charters? why/why not?
I do agree with other folks i dont see this a trend, but im afraid the frequency would increase to absolute "noobs" charting songs and thinking they could get paid to do request. Im open to people asking for donations as it's a great way to add incentive to finish a project. Knowing you have all that support. Even with Puppetz, he's known for his large quantity of charted songs. He's still one of the most respected members of the original FoF-FF community. To gain that ability was actually well worth his effort. Im sure he has things he can use it on (school, booze?!). Just in this thread though it shows that he has a dedicated fanbase. Which i wont trample over.

Do you think is tramples all over the original conceptions for this community? why/why not?
To a degree i think yes. This community has really been built on the backs of us and the admins and mods (more so the admins). A lot of people have dedicated their free time to doing stuff and paid request sort of draw a line between what or who is considered good in the community. If i get compared to let's say Angevil for charting, who's would win? Obviously Angevil. Now do the same thing and compare me to a "noob" i pretty much come out the winner. It draws a line that shouldnt be drawn in this community.


Do you think it will ruin an already great community? why/why not?
Not really, I asked this question out of technicality. The fact is the people make the community, if the people cant act like sensible human beings then we have that division again


What is your personal opinion as a fretter/ leecher?
I think it's wrong, though im not condoning it as I said. Im actually quite impressed that it actually works for Puppetz. He wants to continue with it, it's 130% up to him. I wish him luck in the future and whatever else people say for good mannerisms.

[Asskickulater]

I dont mind either as long as things do get released for free. I have my opinions, and what not.

However i should answer my own questions now:

Is this a trend that you would see in the future with new and older charters? why/why not?
I do agree with other folks i dont see this a trend, but im afraid the frequency would increase to absolute "noobs" charting songs and thinking they could get paid to do request. Im open to people asking for donations as it's a great way to add incentive to finish a project. Knowing you have all that support. Even with Puppetz, he's known for his large quantity of charted songs. He's still one of the most respected members of the original FoF-FF community. To gain that ability was actually well worth his effort. Im sure he has things he can use it on (school, booze?!). Just in this thread though it shows that he has a dedicated fanbase. Which i wont trample over.

Do you think is tramples all over the original conceptions for this community? why/why not?
To a degree i think yes. This community has really been built on the backs of us and the admins and mods (more so the admins). A lot of people have dedicated their free time to doing stuff and paid request sort of draw a line between what or who is considered good in the community. If i get compared to let's say Angevil for charting, who's would win? Obviously Angevil. Now do the same thing and compare me to a "noob" i pretty much come out the winner. It draws a line that shouldnt be drawn in this community.


Do you think it will ruin an already great community? why/why not?
Not really, I asked this question out of technicality. The fact is the people make the community, if the people cant act like sensible human beings then we have that division again


What is your personal opinion as a fretter/ leecher?
I think it's wrong, though im not condoning it as I said. Im actually quite impressed that it actually works for Puppetz. He wants to continue with it, it's 130% up to him. I wish him luck in the future and whatever else people say for good mannerisms.

for once I completely agree with everything you said lol

[wolferacing]

I will begin by shortly answering the questions asked within the original post. Then I'll go into detail about a few comments and issues I have about this.

Is this a trend that you would see in the future with new and older charters? why/why not?

I'm sure that many authors will attempt to profit on this in the future. If one person sees someone making money then they will try to collect on the idea aswell. Their success depends on their reputation. Which in my opinion, is wrong. An authors reputation should not be a scale for how well their songs are made.

Do you think is tramples all over the original conceptions for this community? why/why not?

Yes I do. This community and the game were built on being free. Both in the sense of money and in the sense of openness. Charging for songs is the complete opposite of what this community was created for.

Do you think it will ruin an already great community? why/why not?

Ruin it? No. Scar it? Perhaps. As I said in the last question, charging for songs is the complete opposite of what this community was created for.

What is your personal opinion as a fretter/ leecher?

I do not support this idea of paying for custom songs. First, let me go into my biggest reason why. This forum has to be paid for. It's not free to host nor to maintain the domain name server. However, this forum is free to join as a member. How is it fair to make money on a forum that someone else is paying for? I believe if any money is being made on creating songs that it should go to the admins to help pay for this site. Another issue I have is how this ruins the aspect of FoF. This game and forum was so popular because of three core things; it's free, it has many available songs, and it is customizable. Let's say some new member just started today. They got all excited when they overheard someone at school talking about Frets on Fire and how it has so many free songs. The new member enters this site and the first topic they stumble upon is one asking money for songs. The new member decides in their head that this must be the new norm and they leave disappointed. One less potential member. Sure they may have became a leecher but at the current pace of things we need all the new members we can get. One last issue I will discuss. The reputation=success issue. I strongly believe that a member's reputation should not be used to judge how good they are at authoring. I've looked over one song that was bought by someone. I found multiple missing notes, pitch issues, and overcharting issues. This isn't in any way meant to "diss" the author or anything. I have respect for the author. However, I felt that the chart was not correct enough to warrant profit off of it. This is the reason why I think reputation should not be the main powering point on this.

My ideal solution?

Allow songs to be authored for money BUT the author should give the profit to the admins to help pay for this site. I'd even be happy with a 70/30 split (70 going to the site.) Before a song is sold it should have to undergo a review process. This would ensure that the buyers are getting quality charts. The author would PM the song to the admins. The admins would then send it off to one of their selected anonymous reviewers. If issues are found the author will be asked to correct them before the sale is completed.

[raynebc]

I think having forum officials get in on the process of authorizing songs for release (sale), or require a cut, it would open a new can of legal worries. As it stands, if somebody wants to hire somebody else to chart a song that is required to later be offered to the rest of the community as free (this should probably become a forum rule if freelancing becomes more common here), it doesn't bother me because it still contributes free content to the community.